Murphy's law

Wally's Angels · Post by **Wally's Angels** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:40 pm

must be in full effect in Jared's hive. He seems to have (or had) a queen but....

This morning very very large red ants were on the front porch beating the tar out of his bees, killing nearly every one that tried to fight and strutting off with their little mouths full of comb! By mid morning the front porch was piled up with dead bees, there was a pile of dead bees in front of the hive and the battle raged on.

We decided to move the hive. We couldn't find a hill or nest anywhere near that hive but figured it sure couldn't hurt and just might throw the ants off enough for the bees to recover. Right after we moved the hive and killed the ants we looked inside and found lots of small hive beetles so we killed them, but there was also lots of cobweb looking stuff in one side of the hive and some eggs of some sort (we're thinking wax moth??) and some larva that were not bee larva. We took that whole frame out and stuck it in the freezer so the kids can look at it under the microscope later.

Looked around some more and poor Jared only has one frame of brood, most of which were emerging as we looked. On the frame next to it there are a few (maybe two dozen) eggs and that's it. There aren't even enough bees to cover both of those frames! Such a huge change in a weeks time! Last week his hive was looking like it was getting stronger and all signs were that things were going great! Being the momma that I am (and hating to see one of my kids try so hard and get whooped up on) I am tempted to go out in the morning before he gets up and put another frame of brood from Caleb's hive in there. Would that hurt anything?

Taeler and Caleb's hives on the other hand are doing incredible. In a week's time Caleb's hive has produced a full deep of honey! Now if we can keep Caleb from going out there and eating it right out of the frames we will have accomplished something. Taeler's hive is chugging right along too, and Jessica's hive is full and has a super going on in the morning.

I really want to be able to help Jared with his hive, but I am so stumped. A few hive beetles I was ready for, even the webby stuff didn't bother me but to have such a roller coaster hive next to two really really strong ones is stumping me. Plus the look on Jared's face when he sat there trying to take in the piles of dead bees felt like a kick in the chest

What can we do to strenthen his hive and help them to build up as quickly as possible?

Post by **Wally** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:30 am

As much as I hate to be the bearer of bad news, the hive is gone and you are only raising pests to decimate your other hives. Spread out all the frames in the sun and kill all the pests you can. Let the few remaining bees take up with the other hives. Freeze each frame for 24 hours after the bees have left it.
One of the other hives should swarm within the next 30 days and you can repopulate it.

Wally's Angels · Post by **Wally's Angels** » Thu May 10, 2007 9:48 pm

Oh for mercy's sake I just don't know about my kiddos some days!! Jared read the advice that you gave him Wally and just shook his head and asked me if he could pray about it first. I told him I would give him until Saturday to figure out what he wanted to do ....it was his hive after all.

So today me and Troy get back from running errands and the kids had hatched a plan. They said since you thought the other two hives would swarm soon and we aren't ready equipment wise to try to manage two swarms that they would take brood frames from the stronger of the two hives (Caleb's mean ol' bees). The next step in the plan they hatched was to take Jared's remaining bees and the new brood frames and put them in a nuc box while they start working on rearing a queen and gaining strength.... I guess Jared felt like they needed a more defendable territory.

Maybe I'm crazy but I let 'em have at it.... shoot I even helped!! We took the remaining frame of newly emerged bees and bit of capped brood from Jared's hive, added two frames of eggs, larva and capped brood with honey and pollen on the edges from Caleb's hive and one from Taeler's because she said she wanted Jared to have a pretty queen who was sweet and gentle... hahaha. So there are 4 frames of bees and brood and one frame that is just full of pollen and honey. With the nights being a bit warmer now will the brood stay warm enough with so few bees?

Is there any chance at all that this is gonna work??? or are my kids just over the edge of crazy?? Figured I'd let y'all know what ended up happening around here with the murphy's law hive. Btw, the box and the frames and all that used to be Jared's hive is sitting in my deep freezer now

Jared says he is going to clean it out really good so his new bees have a great house to move into if it works.

Kurt Bower · Post by **Kurt Bower** » Fri May 11, 2007 5:21 am

I agree with Wally's original advice.
But...
The real question about building a new hive with what you had, is how many bees are really left to take care of what you just gave them?
In a sense, you made a split and if kept in a nuc, it is possible that you could come through this thing OK.
My biggest concern is whether or not you have enough bees to take care of the nuc.

Kurt

Post by **Wally** » Fri May 11, 2007 7:58 am

Did you find the queens, or just hope you didn't take one or both of them?
Did you ensure that you left eggs in both hives in case you did get one or both queens?
Did you take bees and brood, or just brood with the frames?
Did you remove all shb larva and adults from the frames of Jared's hive?
Did you reduce the entrance on the nuc to 1 inch or less?
Did you record the date, so you will know when to check the different progress dates?
Do you have the nuc in full sunlight?

If all above questions have the proper answers, you have a good chance of succeeding.

GOOD LUCK

Wally's Angels · Post by **Wally's Angels** » Fri May 11, 2007 9:32 am

Thanks for your input Kurt, right now I think Jared is wanting to weigh every option!

Well, Wally my diehard young 'un did just exactly this:

-He chose one frame from Caleb's hive that has one side nearly completely covered with capped brood, about 1/2 of that was emerging as we made the transfer. Jared said: "those bees will be working tomorrow"
The other side of that frame was nearly completely covered with larva of various ages and some capped brood.

-He chose a second frame from Caleb's hive that was nearly completely covered with eggs, larva and capped brood on one side. The other side of that frame was nearly completely covered with eggs and younger larva.

-He took one frame of eggs and larva from Taeler's hive that was nearly full on both sides.

-He did not add any bees to that hive/ now nuc. There were a few more bees in the box than what we expected but still not enough to defend themselves in a deep brood chamber.

-All pest (shb, wax moth, ants and larva) were removed from the frames. There were only 2 frames from the original hive used to make the new start. We put the nuc in a bright sunny spot away from the other hives, it gets a little shade later in the day but mostly sun..... Jared thought they "need a new neighborhood for awhile"

-Jared wrote the date down on the calendar.

-He reduced the entrance but I'm not sure if it's down to an inch ... .I'll go look.

We didn't take bees/ queen from either one of the other hives. Caleb's queen is always surrounded by really really mean little bees!

I don't know if this will work or not .... I'm really kind of at a loss with the whole thing. But I do know that Jared is willing to put the effort in and do whatever it takes to see to it that his hive (or something that he can call his hive) is going to survive. The other thing I get a kick out of is the other two kids just volunteering to give him whatever they can to help .... prior to getting into keeping these bees my kids really didn't like to share their things with each other. The bees have drawn them all together and now all three of them are rooting for this little bunch of bees to make it. So what else is there that we can do/ need to do. Or is it just best to go back to Wally's original plan and disperse whatever bees are there?

Whew, this is getting long!!! Sorry for taking up your time reading all of this..... if your still here that is.

Post by **Wally** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

If there is enough bees to keep the brood warm, they should make it.
Check it is 7 to 8 days. There should be queen cells. If so, they are on track.

If you really want to give them a boost, when you find the queen cells, move the nuc to where one of the other hives are and move the other hive to where they are. In other words, just swap places with them and another hive. Do it in the middle of the day when all foragers are out working. When they return, they will take up with the hive in their home site. That will weaken the hive that was moved, but boost the nuc with a few thousand foragers.

GOOD LUCK

Wally's Angels · Post by **Wally's Angels** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:50 pm

Okay, I'll tell Jared he may want to switch the hives around in about a week. He says there are a few bees going in and out today acting like they are on a mission (whatever that means).

I'll make sure to let ya know what happens next!!