Hi there, Both my hives are eight-frame equipment and full of bees (one deep and two mediums), new swarms this year. I'm thinking I should stop feeding them and put on an excluder and some honey supers. I know the honey flow is over, but there's rain coming tomorrow and I'm thinking the plants may rebound a bit.. It is also starting to look crowded in my Frisbee hive. Should I be splitting or would putting a couple of honey supers on top relieve the space-stress?
Also, I haven't done any preventative treatments against nosema, tracheal mites, or the "sugar shake". I would like to know how you all deal with this. Do you prevent, or do you wait until you see a problem and act upon it? Especially, if you have 5+ hives?
Ate pizza tonight and we were all wondering, does the Queen eat pizza? Do you think she has even tasted it?
Any comments much appreciated, Tracey
When to put on honey supers
I think the queen quit eating Pizza when she went on the wagon and quit drinking mead. She said "Pizza and beer, or nothing". 
I might put on the honey supers, but I don't put on the honey excluders.
You should always wait until treatment is needed. The consensus is that treatments for prevention adds to resistance in the mites.
I might put on the honey supers, but I don't put on the honey excluders.
You should always wait until treatment is needed. The consensus is that treatments for prevention adds to resistance in the mites.
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Kurt Bower
- Guard bee
- Posts: 692
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:04 pm
- Location: Julian, NC
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Cross Wiring Frames and Queen Excluder
Okay, thanks! So I'll wait until treatment is warranted and put on my honey supers. Kurt, if I put on my feeders for a few days to help build the wax and then take it off (is this bad practice?), that's not going to help you with your question is it? Are you trying to figure out how much nectar is still out there?
Can you both comment on queen excluders? I know everyone does something different, but I'd like to know how you get just honey on a frame. Won't the Q just keep laying and laying in the foundation? Do we as beeks control the population by controlling the amount of brood space or do you just let them expand and expand (like the old lady in the shoe). At what point do they put in just honey - only when there's a flow? Do you have pollen mixed with your honey and need to filter it well? Does it give it an extra flowery taste?
Also, I want to make sure I have food for them going into winter. Is (hopefully) what they will have in the brood box enough, or will I have to get some honey supers in the freezer to put back into the hive for winter? (I don't want to take any honey this year, I'm just worried about being able to provide them with what they need for winter, since the Bees missed the main spring honeyflow).
I think I might be high maintenance because I have alot of questions!
My Queen isn't laying in cells where the crimped wire is on the bottom. Do you all cross wire your brood frames or just your honey for extraction? If I have shallows do they need to be cross wired? (The little red crimper I ordered is crappy and it's killing my hands, is there a better way to crimp wire or a better product?).
Thank you very much for all your time. TJ
P.S. It was Papa John's and it was soooo good. The bees knees.
Can you both comment on queen excluders? I know everyone does something different, but I'd like to know how you get just honey on a frame. Won't the Q just keep laying and laying in the foundation? Do we as beeks control the population by controlling the amount of brood space or do you just let them expand and expand (like the old lady in the shoe). At what point do they put in just honey - only when there's a flow? Do you have pollen mixed with your honey and need to filter it well? Does it give it an extra flowery taste?
Also, I want to make sure I have food for them going into winter. Is (hopefully) what they will have in the brood box enough, or will I have to get some honey supers in the freezer to put back into the hive for winter? (I don't want to take any honey this year, I'm just worried about being able to provide them with what they need for winter, since the Bees missed the main spring honeyflow).I think I might be high maintenance because I have alot of questions!
My Queen isn't laying in cells where the crimped wire is on the bottom. Do you all cross wire your brood frames or just your honey for extraction? If I have shallows do they need to be cross wired? (The little red crimper I ordered is crappy and it's killing my hands, is there a better way to crimp wire or a better product?).
Thank you very much for all your time. TJ
P.S. It was Papa John's and it was soooo good. The bees knees.
TJ, you have too many RELEVANT questions for a 3 wpm typist like me. I suggest you come down and we will spend an hour talking and doing, rather than me spending 8 hrs. typing mistakes and poor grammar.
Excluders are used by many and not used by many, but no one uses them when starting wired foundation. It is much better to let the bees start drawing comb in the super before installing the excluder, if you insist on using it for extracted honey. If you are using it for comb honey, it's too late. Wait until next year.
Excluders are used by many and not used by many, but no one uses them when starting wired foundation. It is much better to let the bees start drawing comb in the super before installing the excluder, if you insist on using it for extracted honey. If you are using it for comb honey, it's too late. Wait until next year.
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Locust&Honey
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Kurt Bower
- Guard bee
- Posts: 692
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:04 pm
- Location: Julian, NC
- Contact:
If you are planning on simply expanding the brood chamber, then feeding at this time would be the way to go. A queen will not lay an egg on foundation, but will lay in a partially drawn cell, thus forcing the bees to finish drawing comb to complete the cell walls. If there is not adequate netar flow, then the bees will take wax from other places including tearing holes in existing foundation causing trouble for you later. Yes, your experiment of adding a super on without feeding would have been a way for all of us to gain insight on the nectar flow this time of year.
For all of you anti-queen excluding people I say the following. "yes it is true that the bees will only work up through when they have finished filling up the brood chamber first" With that said, I made approx. 1200 lbs of honey from 15 hives this year with queen excluders on. So please don't tell me how they are "honey excluders." The other advantage of queen excluders is that you will not have any brood in your honey supers. No brood means no cocoon, No cocoon means almost zero wax moth damage chemical free. I store my supers outside, using nothing to prevent wax moth damage and have virtually no damage.
If you allow the queen to lay in the honey supers, your queen will almost surely lay out the center 6 frames. The rest should have minimal brood. Yes, you will have pollen in your honey, but do not worry as you will have many customers that love this because it helps with their allergies.
Dont use the sorry red crimpers! Wire your foundation if you feel you need to. (No need to wire if using crimp wire in the brood chamber. Need to wire if using for honey extraction) Simply pull the wire taught and secure it. Use a spur embedder to push the wire into the wax and the queen will happily lay eggs in those cells.
Kurt
For all of you anti-queen excluding people I say the following. "yes it is true that the bees will only work up through when they have finished filling up the brood chamber first" With that said, I made approx. 1200 lbs of honey from 15 hives this year with queen excluders on. So please don't tell me how they are "honey excluders." The other advantage of queen excluders is that you will not have any brood in your honey supers. No brood means no cocoon, No cocoon means almost zero wax moth damage chemical free. I store my supers outside, using nothing to prevent wax moth damage and have virtually no damage.
If you allow the queen to lay in the honey supers, your queen will almost surely lay out the center 6 frames. The rest should have minimal brood. Yes, you will have pollen in your honey, but do not worry as you will have many customers that love this because it helps with their allergies.
Dont use the sorry red crimpers! Wire your foundation if you feel you need to. (No need to wire if using crimp wire in the brood chamber. Need to wire if using for honey extraction) Simply pull the wire taught and secure it. Use a spur embedder to push the wire into the wax and the queen will happily lay eggs in those cells.
Kurt
Thanks L&H and Kurt, That's alot of good info. and it's great to get both sides of the excluder debate. I'll probably try both ways and see what each hive does.
But the question remains, how much brood do I need? My 8 frame hive deep and two mediums are bursting with bees now (some on outside of one, they may swarm), and I'm not sure if I need to keep brood expanding. I'm from Canada so if I was up there, knowing how the winters are, I would feed for more brood and add a 3rd medium. These bees are taking a gallon down in three days right now, they are highly prolific. But down here in the South, is one deep, 2 mediums, 8 frame, a good sized brood space and enough to keep warm for the winter, barring unforeseen circumstances? The reason I ask is the mediums are heavy if they end up putting up honey and I have to move them around, and I was hoping to use the excluder and use the shallows. But if they need more room.... then eight frame no excluder. So how big is your brood space?
Tracey
But the question remains, how much brood do I need? My 8 frame hive deep and two mediums are bursting with bees now (some on outside of one, they may swarm), and I'm not sure if I need to keep brood expanding. I'm from Canada so if I was up there, knowing how the winters are, I would feed for more brood and add a 3rd medium. These bees are taking a gallon down in three days right now, they are highly prolific. But down here in the South, is one deep, 2 mediums, 8 frame, a good sized brood space and enough to keep warm for the winter, barring unforeseen circumstances? The reason I ask is the mediums are heavy if they end up putting up honey and I have to move them around, and I was hoping to use the excluder and use the shallows. But if they need more room.... then eight frame no excluder. So how big is your brood space?
Tracey
TJ, 10 frames in a deep is used by some beeks in this area. 10 deep frames and 10 medium frames should be fine any winter here. 20 frames of deeps will be a comfortable cushion beyond the minimum needed.
An 8 frame deep and 2 8 frame mediums equal 7% more than 2 10 frame deeps. That should be quite sufficient in this area.
If you want to use queen excluders, I would "bait" the super by moving 1 or 2 frames of honey into it when installing. They will work through it much better when there is drawn comb in the super. They are VERY reluctant to start working on a super of all foundation when the honeyflow isn't real strong.
An 8 frame deep and 2 8 frame mediums equal 7% more than 2 10 frame deeps. That should be quite sufficient in this area.
If you want to use queen excluders, I would "bait" the super by moving 1 or 2 frames of honey into it when installing. They will work through it much better when there is drawn comb in the super. They are VERY reluctant to start working on a super of all foundation when the honeyflow isn't real strong.
