Any suggestions for action

Post by **Jacobs** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:56 pm

I have had a number (easily 100+) of dead bees in front of my hive, mostly adult, some with pollen as the days have grown colder. This evening there were about 15 dead bees and larva (several with shriveled wings--looking like they had been chewed into little lines of wing), a few dead small ants, and a few dead verroa mites (I am pretty sure) on the landing board this evening.

This weekend we are going to have several warm afternoons that would let me go into the hive. Is there anything specifically I should be looking for and anything I can do if I find a serious verroa mite problem. I have not seen evidence of a problem before the last week to 10 days.

ski · Post by **ski** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:59 pm

Maybe a sugar roll for a mite count or perhaps a natural mite drop count to determine mite level. Action, maybe Miteaway 2 IF there is a mite problem, but I have not used the stuff and you should check the it out well before making a final decision.
Maybe its just a pesticide problem or chilled brood problem.
Thats My best guess.

Locust&Honey · Post by **Locust&Honey** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:11 pm

Does anybody think it might be wax moth???

Locust&Honey · Post by **Locust&Honey** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:12 pm

And also, is it not too late for treatments?? Do the cold nights not affect such treatments?? I thought all treatments were temperature sensitive.

Oh yeah...sorry to hear about the hive. I keep having dreams that my hives keep getting turned over and the bees turn to popsicles. this is true....

Post by **Wally** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:29 pm

Wax moths are like vultures....They go for the dead and dieing. They do not kill strong hives.

It is supposed to get 65 or better this weekend. You can fog then, but I would do a check first, as Ski said. Either a 24 hour drop or a sugar roll. I would do the sugar, myself.

Kurt Bower · Post by **Kurt Bower** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:08 am

My guess is that the hive has weakend to a point that the bees are simply dieing due to lack of self sustaining population.
I guess you do not know what the cluster size is at this point?
Let us know what you find. I doubt that varroa is your problem this late in the season.

ski · Post by **ski** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:20 pm

So the mite load may be low due to the queen being in reduced laying or has stopped egg laying because of the short days / cold weather. But with deformed wings having been seen there may be deformed wing virus present.

My long shot question is:
With several days of warm weather coming up would it be a some what good idea to add one tray of apiguard to eliminate the DWV?

Granted it would only be a 25-40 % treatment but... maybe enough to eliminate the DWV?

OF course as mentioned IF the cluster size is to small maybe to small to maintain temperature then all bets are off. Just thinking out loud.

So possible action; mite count, verify cluster size...treatment with..?

Post by **Jacobs** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:20 am

I will probably try an inspection and sugar roll tomorrow afternoon. It's 11:00 a.m. and around 57 degrees now. There are foragers out and and several hundred bees doing orientation flights. There are approximately a hundred dead bees and larva, (mostly bees) in front of the hive. I have seen 1 or 2 with "k" wings, none with shriveled wings, and all of the "garbage" had been cleaned off the landing board before I could get a look at it. I'll report back what I see, but my guess is that I will still be baffled.

I appreciate the suggestions and ideas. I hope I am just worrying for no good reason, but if I am to lose this hive, I at least want to be in a position to salvage the comb. I plan to have a batch of Wally's powder available if I see signs of the dreaded wax moth.

Kurt Bower · Post by **Kurt Bower** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:07 am

This time of year will not allow for substantial damage by the wax worm/moth.
As long as you keep it in an outbuilding that allows the temps to freeze you shouldn't see damage until around April.

Post by **Jacobs** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:12 pm

I just finished going into the hive and "did in" a fair number of bees as "honey" oozed all over the frames. There are a good number of bees in the hive and still brood in the first medium super. The second and third mediums are heavy with capped "honey."

I did the sugar roll the way the University of Minnesota Poster # 155 showed. If 1 oz. liquid really does = 100 bees, I got around 400. My actual varroa count was 28 mites.

If you double the count as Minnesota say to because of the presence of brood, that would bring the count to 56, or 14 mites/100 bees. If I had as few as 300 bees the doubled figure would be approximately 19 mites/100 bees.

I am wondering if I try a powdered sugar mite-drop in the next few days, would it accomplish anything?

ski · Post by **ski** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:10 pm

I think fogging or the powdered sugar or a apiguard tray while the weather is above 60. I think that any thing to get rid of additional mites is a good thing.
The powdered sugar shake over the top bars is a quick and easy way to knock a few mites off the bees. Just slide a piece of cardboard or something in the front entrance to catch the sugar and mites that fall through and remove it before the mites hitch a ride again.

Kurt Bower · Post by **Kurt Bower** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:22 am

I have no proof of the following staement but it just makes sense to me.
Normally a varroa count is done when the hive is full sized in the Spring and or Summer.
While your varroa count sounds high, you are sampling from a smaller cluster with little to no brood this time of year.
The varroa mites damage is primarily directed towards the brood as the mating happens inside of the cells causing viral transfers and DWS (deformed wing syndrome)
The varroa mite does feed on the adult bees, but I am unaware of the severity of damage that they can project.
I am also unaware of any commercial beekeepers treating in the winter.

Please estimate the cluster size when examing your bees. ie... grapefruit, football, soccer ball, golf ball

etc...

Kurt

Post by **Jacobs** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:04 am

Thanks Kurt. Based on what I saw yesterday, I would have to say at least football size. Bees were on every frame I looked at, though not totally covering most of them.

Kurt Bower · Post by **Kurt Bower** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:37 am

Sounds like a pretty good sized cluster and should overwinter.
Best of luck.

Locust&Honey · Post by **Locust&Honey** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:09 pm

I know this doesn't pertain to this thread but I didn't want to start another one. Is anyone else going to feed on these warm days? Don't the bees consume more honey than usual with this unseasonal weather? And one last question. When the weather is warm like it is, would going in the hives for a quick look-see stress the hive too much for this time of year? I hope that makes sense.

Post by **Jacobs** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:54 pm

I took my feeder off to provide less space that needed heating. With approximately 2 mediums of capped "honey" and the hive in a location where I can look at it and give it a lift/tilt, I will put the feeder back on if it looks like they are running through their supplies. Today they are out foraging and bringing in pollen. I'm not sure where they are getting it, but if they are not getting nectar, they have plenty of stores.

Locust&Honey · Post by **Locust&Honey** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:20 pm

I made some 2:1 sugar water for the ladies. They seem to be more interested in robbing each other than taking in the sugar water. I will give them until tomorrow before I take the sugar water away and give it to the other hives down the road. Does this mean they have plenty of stores?? And if so then why the robbing? The 2:1 sugar water should be fine for them to take in considering the weather, right?

Post by **Jacobs** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 4:40 pm

How are you feeding the 2:1? Top feeders, external feeding? When I took my top feeder off, I was able to see the frames of capped "honey" in my top medium. I had fed some 2:1 about a month ago and found that it crystallized some toward the end before the bees could finish it, and some bees actually got trapped in it and died. (not huge numbers) Is your robbing hive to hive with top feeders or are you using something else to feed?

I think is was Emerson at the last meeting who suggested 1 Tsp of Cream of Tartar to 20 lbs of sugar to prevent crystallizing in the cells when using 2:1. I hadn't heard that when I made that batch and haven't made up any since.

Locust&Honey · Post by **Locust&Honey** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:03 pm

I put the sugar water in front hive feeders and then place them on a table about 10 feet in front of the hives. They really took to it today. It is almost all gone. I only fed becuase of the weather. I tried to leave them all with 1 medium of honey for the winter.

Post by **Jacobs** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:24 am

I can't really expect my hive to make it with the losses I am seeing out front whenever the weather permits orientation flights and foraging. I'm still seeing a number of bees with deformed wings (varroa) and fully formed bees that do not have the strength to make it back into the hive and have their abdomens pumping like crazy (tracheal?). On the brighter side, I did see a dandelion bloom in my back yard yesterday (Christmas day) so maybe we will be getting the gift of an early spring.

I know that I have been given the gift of knowledge and helpful suggestions this past year, and as I gain knowledge, I hope to be able to pass it on.