Two Hives-One failing can't find either Queen

[BoxTurtleMeadows]

New to bees - took the Guildford bee class this winter, using TBH.
Got bees (two packages) last week of March.
I have one hive failing - started good. Now no new bees.
Looked for Queen, my newbie eyes couldn't find her, so I moved one bar from the thriving hive expecting the bees to make a queen cell.
It has been over 9 days, no queen cell an no new babies?
I need help!
Today with the rain letting off I looked in the thriving hive and see babies (can't find the queen).

What do I do next?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Jacobs]

If you are seeing capped worker brood in your thriving hive, that queen was mated. If you also see eggs, you don't need to see her. She was in there within the last 3 days and you may have missed her.

Your failing hive may be more of a problem. There were a large number of poorly mated or drone laying queens in the early packages this year. If you saw single eggs in the center bottom of cells, things may be ok. If you are seeing multiple eggs in cells and many are not in the center bottom or they are on the sides of the cell, you may have a hive that has gone laying worker. If that has happened, the bees in the hive probably would not attempt to make a queen out of a frame of eggs and open brood, but would raise the brood. They would be content with their doomed situation, feeling that they are queen right. They would very likely be hostile to any new queen you would attempt to introduce, and would probably kill her.

What were you seeing brood and egg-wise in the 2 hives?

[BoxTurtleMeadows]

I am not seeing any new eggs or larvae in the failing hive and the number of bees is dramatically low.
But I am seeing capped Drone cells low and mostly in the center of the comb on the failing hive.
Without being able to find her (I only have maybe 5 frames of comb) and less that 3000 bees I think.
Is it too far gone?

[Jacobs]

I don't have top bar hive experience, but if you are not seeing multiple eggs in cells in the failing hive, you may have a drone laying queen. If that is the case, you would need to find her and kill her and give it at least a few hours before putting in a frame of eggs from your healthy hive. If you don't get her out, the bees will probably raise that brood without trying to make a new queen.

When I have a laying worker hive, I have given up on attempts to salvage it. I just take the frames about 50 feet from the hives I have at that location and shake out the bees. I let them try to make it where they can. My experience is that a laying worker hive will kill any queen you try and introduce. Transferring frames of eggs week after week to try and turn around a laying worker hive seems to me to be nothing more than an extremely slow form of shake out. It amounts to putting resources into the hive over time and waiting for the laying worker bees to die out while the new brood eventually takes over and makes a queen from the eggs being added.

Other folks may have had more success salvaging a laying worker hive. I would like to know if that is the case and how it has been accomplished.

[BoxTurtleMeadows]

Was gone over the last week and my failing hive was LOADED with SHB larva.
I removed all of the comb, every last one was infected or had at least an adult beetle on it (6 combs).
Late last night I closed up the good hive nd movedthe stand into a more sunny location about 100' from where the old site was.
This site has all types of mint (suggested that this might help the SHB issue??) growing around and under the hives and the back of the hives now boarder my chick, duck and goose pen (figure any larva or emerging beetles would get eaten by the fow)l
The main comb that had the bees on the failing hive I removed and left out side away from the now empty hive.

So all that long and short, my question;

Can I now take a frame from my good hive that is doing very well and "split" that into the cleaned out shell of the failing hive?

Thank You
Jonathan & Kathy Johnson
Box Turtle Meadow Farms

[Wally]

You can make a split, but with a new hive like you have and this late in the year, I doubt they could build up enough to make it through the winter. I would let them build as much as possible this year and split in March or April, 2014.

[BoxTurtleMeadows]

Thank You Wally!