Bees at the Ag Center

Bee related information that doesnt fit any where else

Moderators: Jacobs, Wally

Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

Yesterday, David and I checked one of the hives that had been a problem. To say it has been "less than friendly" on two earlier inspections would be an understatement. I had serious questions about whether it was queenright, and around two weeks ago, put a frame of eggs and larvae into it. This time, the examination was easier. The bees did not immediately attack, but the hive remained a mystery until we reached the deep. The bees raised the brood in the frame I had put in, but there were no signs of queen cells, old or new. In the deep and the medium just above the deep, we saw some old capped worker brood, not in a tight pattern, ongoing drone brood in the typical spring locations, and a few reasonably well placed eggs. There were old queen cells, but it was difficult to tell how old. They appeared to have been around for awhile. The hive is still hosting a significant number of drones which appear to be full sized.

David spotted a nice sized queen walking around on a deep frame. We put the hive back together, and by that time, the bees were not so calm. I'll check it again in a couple of weeks to see how this queen is performing.
WannaBee1
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by WannaBee1 »

Rob, what would you have done if you hadn't had a frame with eggs and larvae? My gentle little hive has plenty of bees but I haven't been able to find the queen in over a week. I saw her two and three weeks ago but she seems to have left the hive with no eggs or larvae on any of the frames. There is a little bit of new capped honey but no queen cups being made. If she's really gone, this will be the third queen I've lost since I started my hive in this Spring. I'm wondering why the bees aren't trying to requeen their hive. Is this unusual or typical behavior for this time of year? At this point, I'm not sure what I should do.
Wally
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

If he only had one hive, he would come to my house for help. :mrgreen:
Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

Earlier in the season, a frame of eggs and larvae will give an idea of if the hive is queenless, and if so, give the bees the tools they need to make a new queen. This time of year, the frame is more of a diagnostic tool/laying worker prevention device since drone numbers are usually lower and getting a well mated queen from my own bees is riskier.

In your case, I would want to try and do a careful look to determine that the hive is most likely queenless. I would put in a frame of eggs and larvae and check after 4 days to see if the bees were building queen cells. If they are and I had no ability to buy a mated queen, I would let them go forth and hope for the best. I would use the queen rearing calendar in our forum ("Just Stuff--Useful Links") and enter the date I put the frame in the hive as the "grafting" date to get a timeline of what is to be expected.

I have given several frames of eggs/larvae to other beekeepers this season, and Wally probably remembers the NCSBA meeting in Burlington several years back. We started toward his beeyard to get a frame for one of my hives but had to abandon the project that day because of unusually cold and rainy weather. Wally was not kidding in his short but accurate answer.
WannaBee1
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by WannaBee1 »

Thanks, guys! Wally, you can expect a call from me tomorrow. It's so good to know there's help for us wannabees. :)
Wally
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

Sorry I missed your call. Try again, please.
Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

I'm in a struggle to see if I can save this hive. I had reduced it from a deep and 2 mediums to a deep and a medium about 2 weeks ago. I have seen the queen and some eggs on a couple of inspections, but fewer and fewer bees and more and more SHB.

Yesterday I put the queen in a clip and rested it on top of frames while I set up a 5 frame medium nuc. The bees were attracted to the queen, so I took that as a good sign. I put 3 medium frames that had pollen and some honey into the nuc and released the queen in it. I shook all of the bees into the nuc and have the deep and medium frames from the hive in the freezer. I put the other 2 frames in and put an entrance reducer on the nuc.

My hope is that the crowded nuc will be able to manage the SHB that they could not handle on 20 frames. I plan to look in the nuc over the weekend and see if the queen is laying and if they are able to protect the eggs and brood from the SHB. If so, I may boost with a frame of nursebees and brood from one of my hives.

Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
Wally
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

How many hours of direct sun is the nuc getting? Any amount of shade will be detrimental to the nuc.
Jacobs
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

Until the leaves drop it gets more shade than I like, but it does get several hours of direct sun after mid-morning. I have been giving some thought to bringing it home where it can get more sun and attention if the queen shows any signs of being productive.
Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

It looks like I'll be in the process of shutting down this hive. The queen looks good and walks around calmly. She sometimes examines a cell, but does not back in and drop an egg. The bees are calm, but their numbers are clearly dropping.
Wally
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

Make a bit of swarm lure with her and let the other bees help get the hive next door ready for winter.
Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

Sounds like a plan to me.
Jacobs
Guard bee
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

The one remaining hive at the Ag Center is hanging on, but barely. It was not quite warm enough to pull frames apart yesterday, but the bees were not bringing in pollen or flying with a purpose. Not a good sign.
Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

They are gone. They are all gone.
Wally
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

Clean them up, spray with BT, and let them set there. There are, 'or were" ferals in that area. A swarm is very likely.
Jacobs
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Posts: 1890
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

The club paid for 2 packages and 1 replacement queen after initial queen problems with the first package, and we now have 2 functioning hives at the Ag Center. I have spoken to Karen, and we will see about the possibility of moving the hives to a better location within the community garden area.
Wally
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Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

Are you saying the club PAID for a replacement queen after receiving a bad one with the package?
Jacobs
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Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

That is what I am saying. The original queen was released from her cage, but I never saw her after that. I ordered a new queen, put her in, and upon her release, she was doing fine.
Wally
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Location: Randleman

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Wally »

I would be looking for a new source of packages if the seller knew of the situation and didn't supply a new queen.
Jacobs
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Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:36 pm
Location: Greensboro, NC

Re: Bees at the Ag Center

Post by Jacobs »

I think most package producers are getting away from standing behind queens in the earliest packages. If everyone selling packages and buying packages agreed not to supply/demand them before mid April, much of the queen problem would vanish. The push to get queens mated by the 3rd or 4th week in March to have for package bees in late March puts everyone at the mercy of the early spring weather. I think things are going in the direction of caveat emptor (let the buyer beware) for the earliest of spring queens.
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