to exclude or not to exclude

[p51d]

Question of the day:

Do you use a queen excluder or not? I am in my third season, and at the meetings and other talks with beekeepers much more experienced than me, some say the excluders limit growth and the brood areas and queen will generally stop at a certain point and pure honey is in the top most supers free of larvae.

I still have excluders but two hives, somehow, with the excluder in place had the queen (or new queen) above the excluder, and the bottom brood left for a new place.

[ttthay]

Ok Wally answer this one for us. I have always used excluders but often heard that it cuts down on honey production? So, I would appreciate some insight on this question also.

[Wally]

It's as old as excluders themselves. Strictly personal preference.

The only thing I will say is never use an excluder under foundation, only under drawn comb. Bees will go through them into a box that is being used, or has some comb and honey already in it. It is VERY difficult to get them to start a new box above an excluder.

[p51d]

Hi Wally,

O.K. what about a bit of an add on question. I have excluders at the brood chamber and a honey super above for extra store. Why? Because I starved mine the first year. This would limit the brood so maybe the question is, do we newbies just need to take it off and only put it on during honey production?

We can now use the logic to see there is no easy answer for excluders but I wonder if they bring any value except for the logic I had in the first paragraph.

I really have never moved the excluders since the beekeeping class a couple of year ago never really indicated to remove it during winter months.

Thanks for the thoughts for ttthay and me....

[Wally]

>>>>I have excluders at the brood chamber and a honey super above for extra store.<<<<

If I understand you right, when the cluster moves up into the super of honey, the queen is left below to starve or freeze. Is that what you are saying? The bees will not move the honey in the super down.

[p51d]

I have the brood chamber. then excluder to keep the queen in the brood chamber, generally the bees cluster there. Above the excluder one full honey super.

They seemed to grab the honey somehow last year during the winter months even though the cluster was below.

If I need to take the excluders I will do so on a very warm day.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Wally]

I think the excluder is going to kill your queen. The cluster will move up and leave her. You were lucky last year. They had enough in the bottom box to last them. They will not move the honey down through the excluder. This winter is much colder and they will likely move up. It is supposed to get up around 50 later this week. I would remove it as soon as it is sunny and above 45.

[Kurt Bower]

I would agree with Wally in that if we were to get a substantial period of cold weather, the bees would not have access to the honey in the super.
On the other hand, I believe that bees regularly move honey around in order to keep food where thay need it. But if the temps stay below 50 they will not have this as an option.
With that stated, I know commercial beekeepers that do the very thing you are talking about and seem to make a go of it. Probably not my first choice.
Excluders can be helpful and harmful depending on how they are managed. I always encourage new beekeepers to not use excluders and allow the queen free run of the hive.

Kurt

[p51d]

thanks. Then I will remove the excluders when I get a warm day. This point I would encourage for the beekeeping class. A discussion around the excluder would be good in my humble opinion. Expecially since there are so many thoughts around to use or not to use.

I already look forward to the spring to get going again. This is a fun hobby.