A nice day to pick up sticks

[ski]

WEll it was a nice day today and I should have been doing a lot of stuff that needs to be done. Like go up the ladder and fix a gutter, do a bit of electrical wiring, cut some base board split a hive but instead I was raking and picking up sticks.
Why you ask? Well yesterday I went to a guys house to help him with his bees, we were in the hive about 30-45 minutes finished up put the hive back together and we started to walk away. Now the bees were about as nice as you could ask, I did not need to wear any gloves did not get any stings or head butts. I did wear a bee jacket as I most always do. Oh yeah, we walked about 10 feet from the hive after we were all done and I flipped my hood back and BZZZZ one got me right between the eyebrows. Last night my nose swelled up into the corners of my eyes and they were still swollen this morning, so I took a clariaten or some generic something or other. That made me sleepy and upset my stomach. I have been walking around in a fog all day. NOT a day to work with saws or electricity or ladders or bees.
A nice day to pick up sticks.

[Jacobs]

After an experience like that it's kind of hard to believe that the bee got the worst of the encounter.

[Wally]

You should have come to the bee club meeting tonight. I would like to have seen that.

[Kurt Bower]

Out of curiosty, why would anyone need 45 minutes in a hive? I think spending too much time in a hive is a bad thing regardless of the weather.
I encourage a more extensive approach to beekeeping. Spend the least amount of time necessary in each hive. Most observations can be made by using a little smoke and without removing frames.
At first glance you can observe if the bees have enough room by checking to see how many frames the bees cover. You can tell if the queen is laying or has been laying by removing one frame. Check for swarm cells by cracking the boxes apart and looking at the bottom after smoking. Check for stores as you lift each box off (lighter boxes indicate a need for feeding syrup). I try not to spend on average over 3 minutes per hive.
I believe that intensive beekeeping is disruptive to the bees routine and overall health.

Kurt

[Jacobs]

I was in one that long on Monday. I, with the help of 2 other beekeepers, was trying to find a queen in a deep and 4 mediums packed with bees. I wanted to split the hive by moving the queen and about half the bees to a different spot. Never did see her, but I'm hoping I disrupted their swarm plans (plenty of queen cells in swarm position) until Thursday when I'll make my next move, whatever that turns out to be.

[ski]

Rob - yes I think I did get the worst of that encounter, especially as far as the hive was concerned.

Wally - I had planned to go to the meeting but just did not feel that good. I think I would have sat there and in a daze. I had my wife take some pictures but they came out blurry or very dark.

Kurt - I agree it was too long to be in a hive - we were trying to split the hive the other guy was a 2nd year beek that has done very little with bees so things went slower then it should have. Turns out the 3 deep hive loaded with bees was inspected by the newbee about 10 days ago and I suspect he may have killed the queen as there were no eggs only one queen cup that had a larvae. There was capped brood open large larvae down to a medium small larvae then empty cells. Needless to say we did not split the hive.
I also seem to take much longer when working with a new or inexperienced beekeeper explaining stuff as we go.

[Kurt Bower]

Cutting queen cells or frame manipulation will not dicourage the bees from swarming. You may get by for a little while but they will try again. I rarley cut cells and only if absolutely necessary. Most times it just demoralizes the hive and something bad will end up happening.
There is one way to split if swarm cells are present.
Usually takes about 5 minutes guaranteed to work.

[Jacobs]

I wasn't cutting queen cells--some were damaged because they were attached to the top bar below. My hope is to locate the queen and move her to another hive with frames NOT containing queen cells and to leave all the other queen cells in the original site and see what happens. Probably 2 hives swarming.

[ski]

Kurt,
Well neither Rob nor I were cutting queen cells.

I was planning on doing what Jacobs mentioned and that was to move the queen to a new hive and leave queen cells or eggs so a new queen can be produced.


But, you wrote:
"There is one way to split if swarm cells are present."

Do you have time to share?

[Kurt Bower]

Bees need 2 things to swarm. A queen and field bees. To stop a swarm you have to effectively separate the two.

When making the split, you can leave the hives side by side if desired. I normally position the new hive 3 ft away.

Start by moving the entire hive to the new location (3 ft away.)

In the original location place a bottom board and an empty super to accomodate frames with swarm cells (deep or medium.)
Carefully remove frames from original hive until you have 2 frames with the best swarm cells you can find. These frames are placed in the center of the empty super which is in the original location. The frames should contain minimal uncapped brood and no queen. Fill in the rest of the super with a few frames of honey and empty drawn comb.

The new location with the original hive will now contain the queen and all of the remaining brood. Remove any swarm cells as you already have a queen.
In the next days to follow all of the field bees will leave the original hive and return to the new location.

Effectively you will have made a split in which one hive contains nurse bees, brood and a queen and the other hive contains field bees and swarm cells.
In this state neither hive will swarm because the necessary condtions for swarming can not be achieved.

[ski]

Kurt,
Sounds like a logical and nifty plan, thanks for sharing the information and for your time.

[Kurt Bower]

I am glad it made sense.
Sometimes when you are doing it, it gets confusing.
Simple when you think about it.