too late for splitting hives

[p51d]

I lost 3 hives. They were very strong in the spring, but kicked the bucket. Is it too late to take some brood from strong hives and try a couple of splits? Of course feed them like crazy.

Tried two splits already, they made no queen and perished. Hopefully others had better success at splits. Honey was a great year.

[Jacobs]

This is where having your location in your profile would be most helpful--we have some members of the forum who live or have moved out of state and continue to post. I enjoy hearing from them, but since beekeeping is local, when they can do things is different from when we can do them.

That being said, if you are in the Guilford County area, I would not try and make a split this late in the season unless I had access to a supply of mated queens and I was prepared to feed the splits heavily to encourage comb building/brood build up, as needed. I am seeing far fewer drones than I was a month ago, and that would make open mating much less likely to succeed.

What are others seeing in drone numbers (and where are you reporting from)?

[sprayburn]

At my site in the Air Harbor area of Greensboro, I am seeing very few drones. I defer to the more experienced BKs here but I would not try to start a split this late.

[p51d]

Pleasant Garden location. Probably too late so I will try again next year.

Thanks for the replies.

[specialkayme]

So the consensus is that it is too late for splits? Even with mated queens?

Just got back from EAS and Mike Palmer recommends splits in fall, so long as you have some type of flow and you can get three brood cycles before the queen shuts down. If we have goldenrod blooming (which in some areas it does, others it doesn't) we could get three brood cycles out before the end of October.

Just curious what others think of Mike's recommendation.

[ski]

Jacobs wrote:
I would not try and make a split this late in the season unless I had access to a supply of mated queens.....

Three brood cycles would require approx 63 days so it should provide a good supply of young bees to over winter the hive.

How did you enjoy EAS?
I had a blast when it was held at Appalachian State University in 2010.

[Wally]

Mike Palmer has spent years researching and doing fall splits and over wintering nucs. If you are willing to take the losses he took the first few years, you can make late splits. If you want success the first couple years, I recommend spring splits.

[specialkayme]

ski wrote:
How did you enjoy EAS?

It was a blast. I really had a good time. I learned alot, and it will probably take me the next year to digest all of my notes. I wished I could have gone in 2010 though, as the only downside was 80% of the material was geared toward people that live in a more northern climate. I had to keep reminding myself "the SHB would tear that hive alive" or "we have another 30-45 days of summer than they do"

Wally wrote:
Mike Palmer has spent years researching and doing fall splits and over wintering nucs. If you are willing to take the losses he took the first few years, you can make late splits. If you want success the first couple years, I recommend spring splits.

I have a few thoughts and/or questions regarding that comment:
1) What makes you think Mike has taken so many losses the first few years? I just ask because I haven't heard about them. I hear about the ones that make it.
2) But, assuming that he has taken several losses, what makes you think the follower of his method will too? Wouldn't someone learn from his mistakes, so you don't make the same ones he did?
3) I think his point is that you can make spring splits AND fall splits. That's how one of his followers was able to go from one 5 frame nuc to approximately 200 colonies in 5 years (another speaker at EAS). Actually, it was using Webster's technique, which is also followed by Palmer.

Not invoking a fight, just trying to learn more. Mike's method appears to have great success in his climate. I have yet to meet anyone in ours that has made it work here. Could be because it isn't as successful (less concentrated flows) here, or it could be because no one has tried it yet.

[Wally]

My main point is, I often see new beeks talking about doing something an experienced commercial beek does and fails to see the difference. Those years of experience mean much more than just time passing.

Mike Palmer can walk through a bee yard and tell more about it than most of us can by doing a complete inspection on every hive.

[specialkayme]

Good point.